Speaking of Favorite YEC Hecklers: How to Copy-and-Paste Cowboy Bob’s Hilarious Howlers

I’m a big fan of Young Earth Creationist, Cowboy Bob Sorensen. His antics assure us all that Poe’s Law remains alive and well.

Indeed, when I first came upon his Piltdown Superman website, I assumed him to be just another Bible-hating troll who thought it was original and funny to mockingly portray the ultimate caricature of the science-ignorant, scripture-illiterate, rabidly angry creationist. [Contrary to these hyper-angry-creationist stereotypes which get all of the attention online, most rank-and-file YECs are neither as rabid nor as ridiculous. Please, readers: Do not assume that all YECs are like the leaders and the loudest activists of the creationist anti-evolution movement. Most YECs are good people who are simply naive and prone to be overly trusting of the wrong people, but they are neither  intentionally deceptive nor mean-spirited, and certainly not as arrogant as the millionaire entrepreneurs who have built the lucrative origins industry.]

Yet, after a few forum exchanges with Bob, I began to suspect that he might actually be the real thing, the angry YEC activist. As it turned out, I was late to the realization of Bob’s angry campaign’s against science: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bob_Sorensen

The Cowboy’s entertainment value goes beyond his self-contradictory rants. Anyone wishing to share with others his most comic nuggets of “wisdom” soon realizes that he’s so insecure about his own rubbish that he tries to make his text unavailable to the user’s clipboard copy-and-paste sequence. (As mentioned in the above link, he often gets caught red-handed in terms of deceptive quote-mines and pseudo-science so he vainly tries to retain deniability by re-editing his biggest bloopers once they are exposed. Accurate quotations from his websites being archived and later used against him are among his greatest fears.)

How to Copy-and-Paste a Cowboy Cowpie

There’s a number of nifty ways to work around Cowboy Bob’s fear of being quoted. Yet, rather than provide a lot of detailed procedures for the many kinds of browsers or promoting various software utilities, I’ll give you a crude but easy-to-remember means of copying-and-pasting Bob’s latest bumbling blooper that should work in most Windows computers and their browsers. (The same general principle can be applied to virtually any OS and its browsers.)

0) To practice this procedure, use your browser to visit:
http://www.piltdownsuperman.com/2015/04/scientific-facts-keep-getting-reversed.html

1) Read down the webpage and find two of Bob’s very typical fibs:  “Lucy is about to be shelved” or how about:

Many think that science is the ultimate source of truth, and they
forget (or do not even know) that many indisputable science facts have
been discarded over the years. Take a look at phlogiston, f’rinstance.

You can use either of those science-denying blunders for what follows–as you learn how to copy-out and paste the text using the procedures described below.

{By the way, readers of this blog as well as anyone with a basic history of science background know that “Phlogiston Theory” was never a theory of modern science. It was an ancient philosophy based on the even more ancient concept of elemental humors, which also produced the ancient practice of bloodletting. The pioneers of modern chemistry used the scientific method to debunk all such derivations of ancient philosophy. This particular lie along with the Lucy-misrepresentation was debunked in the Bible.and.Science.Forum’s blog article: An Open Letter to Young Earth Creationists Who Misrepresented the News About Lucy.}

2) Notice that–thanks to paranoid Bob–you can’t highlight and COPY the text, as you routinely would, when you wish to share such texts with others.

3) With your mouse pointer positioned approximately at the text you want to copy, do a right-mouse-button click to bring up the browser’s sub-menu.

4) Take note of the words/phrase which introduce the text segment you wish to copy.  (You will need them later on to find the text in the source code for the page.)

5) Select (by clicking on or by means of the indicated keyboard character) the menu-choice View Page Source

6) You should now be viewing the source code behind Bob’s insult to your intelligence (i.e., the evolution-hating webpage.)

7) Use the Find command (I use ctrl-F) to find the words/phrase you remember from Step #1 above. [Remember that the words/phrase may occur more than once on the webpage and in the source code.]

8) Use your routine copy-and-paste command sequence to copy out the segments of text you want to paste into your word-processor or email.  

[I strongly recommend that Windows users replace the wimpy Windows clipboard with a freeware utility like Ditto, my personal favorite. It not only let’s me see and utilize my last ten clipboard contents, I can edit them there and know that all of them get permanently archives for later recall.]

[You may want to copy the texts along with the coded commands and then use your word-processor or email editor to eliminate everything but the desired text segments.]

9) Now you can share Cowboy Bob’s detritus with others.  (Keep in mind that some browsers let you choose Paste or Paste as Plain Text. Always use the latter–or disable the RTF feature.) 

Most Young Earth Creationist websites carefully censor and ban anyone who dares to comment in any way which disagrees with the “creation science” party line–or even to ask an embarrassing question which exposes the holes in their pseudo-science and tradition-based Bible interpretations. Of course, many disable comments entirely. Yet, Cowboy Bob Sorensen takes that paranoia much further–not wishing his own words to be used against him.  [Until I started looking at his source code, I thought he might be using a text-to-graphic converter–which would have made this simple procedure ineffective. I should have realized: never over-estimate Bob.]

Hypocrisy At Its Best

Cowboy Bob also entertains through irony and self-contradiction. Here’s an example of Bob’s hypocrisy as he complains about a commenter on a Worldview Warrior forum:

Unfortunately, Haywire is a proven liar and incapable of reason. He loves to twist words…

So, let us all fully grasp what Bob is saying here: He changed Ashley Haworth-Roberts’ name from “Haworth” to “Haywire”–and then Bob complains, “He loves to twist words.” Isn’t that classic! And that’s a big …

“Tu quoque to you too!”

Now our readers can appreciate why Professor Tertius’ is so entertained by yet another clown-prince of YECdom. Yes, Bob’s only an amateur but the guy really does try his best to keep up with the Hovinds and the Ham Man.

Yes, while living in a glass house, your complaints about “a proven liar” and “incapable of reason” have a hollow ring.  Yet, many will hope you will continue to do what you do. Your impassioned troll tales try just as hard to discredit Young Earth Creationism as anything produced by Kent Hovind or Ken Ham. Those professionals just have the unfair advantage of much larger audiences and the bank accounts to match. In the amateur category, you at least deserve an Honorable Mention. After all, everybody loves an underdog.

Sadly, some will assume that Bob’s behavior is based upon and endorsed by the scriptures. Not at all. However, you can find plenty of similar people in Jesus’ day. The Messiah dealt with lots of hypocrites. He didn’t hesitate to call them what they were: “white-washed sepulchers.”

Just as in the first century, the loudest enemies of Jesus’ teachings continue to appoint themselves the final judge of all others by saying “Those who disagree with us/me are of Satan.” Yet, Jesus said, “By their fruits you shall know them.”

Accordingly, whenever YECs like Cowboy Bob call Professor Tertius “an atheist masquerading as a Christian”, the legalists who trust in their favorite traditions remind us that pharisees don’t change their strategies as the years go by.

___________________________

(c) 2015. Professor Tertius & the Bible.and.Science.Forum at Gmail.com.
All rights reserved. Email us at Gmail.com address for permissions on reposting and publication.


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70 Comments

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70 responses to “Speaking of Favorite YEC Hecklers: How to Copy-and-Paste Cowboy Bob’s Hilarious Howlers

  1. This is Sorensen at his ‘best’: http://www.piltdownsuperman.com/2015/06/feral-fundamentalist-anti-creationist.html
    He basically, and without any obvious foundation, accuses ‘Professor Tertius’ (without quoting his most frequently used online name but it is clear who he has in mind) of being in reality one of those ‘atheists’ who pretend to be ‘former creationists’ (and say they are now ex creationist but still Christian).
    Which implies that no Christian leaves creationism (or no TRUE Christian does so and thus the person was not and is not a Christian if they came to reject young earth creationism) – so either way the person is ‘not’ a Christian but either an atheist impostor pretending to be Christian or maybe a self-deluded person who thinks he is a non-creationist Christian but is a ‘Christian’ (who ‘sides’ with the atheists).
    I think …

  2. I love this nugget from the Cowboy Bob link Ashley provided:
    “Let’s be blunt–they want us silenced.”

    No, Bob! While I can certainly see why many would want to see YEC ministry lies and pseudo-science end so that science education would not be thwarted, I hope you keep showing the public just how ridiculous are your claims. The more you babble nonsense, the more people will become aware of the vacuous nonsense “creation science” promotes.

    Fortunately, most of the world’s Christ-followers already see the false teachings of YECism and reject its abuse of the scriptures as well as its rejection of the evidence from creation itself. You reject the evidence from both of the great works which even you claim God authored: the Bible and Creation itself. Yet, while pretending to accept the scriptural evidence, you consider the evidence from creation to be untrustworthy! You never explain why you think God’s creation would deceive us. Why don’t you trust its answers?

    Sadly, some people don’t learn from history. We can look back on many discoveries of science which some people insisted on rejecting them for several generations before agreeing that the once-rejected science was never actually in conflict with the Bible at all. It happened with the Copernican solar system theory and it will happen again with The Theory of Evolution.

  3. TomS

    Can we look back on many discoveries of science where there were several generations of rejection based on a supposed conflict with the Bible?
    Heliocentrism. From 1543 (De Revolutionibus) to 1687 (Principia)? Was there any serious opposition after that?
    Was there any other science that faced Bible-based opposition?

    • Can we look back on many discoveries of science where there were several generations of rejection based on a supposed conflict with the Bible?

      There was a time long ago when I could have rattled off quite a series of examples. But as of now I can only name some highlights. Yet, before I do, I should mention that “several generations” could be broken down in two parts: (1) several generations of scholars, and (2) several generations of the laity. Sometimes a controversy would be important among scholars and not the laity and at other times vice versa.

      The category that first comes to mind is a series of controversies which can neatly be organized under the outline point entitled “The Implications of the Antipodes.” We rarely use that term today but an antipode is the point on the earth which is 180degrees opposite on the globe. And even though Europeans of the Middle Ages had been aware of the spherical shape of the earth for some time, they still struggled with the implications–and the antipodes were a source of mystery.

      So they speculated on what one would find at their antipode’s location. Many Christians assumed that no people lived in the Southern Hemisphere. because they reasoned that Jesus told the disciples to evangelize the entire world. (Also, all of the nations of the world trekked to Egypt to buy grain from Joseph, so they assumed that those people had to have been entirely from the Northern Hemisphere. And because Europeans of the Middle Ages imagined the tropics to be at nearly inferno levels of heat, they assumed that it was IMPOSSIBLE to travel to and beyond the equator. Yet, sailors and explorers returned from voyages south and claimed they DID sail to and even past the equator, many refused to believe it. So this was a case where many used the Bible to deny what scholars were telling them.

      It got even more controversial when some explorers published their stories of travel and described the peoples of Sub-Saharan Africa. Many Christians refused to believe this–but once the evidence was incontrovertible, they decided that the people who lived south of the Equator had no souls, because they reasoned that “soulish peoples” would have required the disciples to evangelize them–yet the assumed that in those days such travel south of the equator hadn’t happened yet (due to lack of “modern technology” like sextant/astrolabe.)

      That dispute may seem silly and inconsequential–until one realizes that if Africans are assessed as having no souls, then they aren’t really “human” and could rightly be enslaved, just like any other “beast of burden.”

      These are just a few of the multi-generational examples of slow acceptance of scientific facts.

      I remember reading Alonso Tostado, the Spanish exegete/theologian, who published on the antipode topics. There are also a lot of silly speculations about the antipodes which aren’t theologically significant but illustrate how both scholars and laity couldn’t figure out the implications of “living upside down” in the Southern Hemisphere. Some artists even drew people walking with the hands like gymnasts with the feet up in the air. So clearly the gravity concept in relation to the center of the earth’s mass was not well understood.

      There were also difficulties people had with the scientific descriptions of lightning and even the Germ Theory of Disease because of their assumptions of God using such things to judge sinners.

      I wish I had a better memory for other conflicts as science advanced. Of course, one can point even to later centuries where Christian philosophers didn’t want to give up on the “ancient science” (the Greek philosophers) and replace it with modern science. (e.g., the elemental humours [which included Galen’s bloodletting] versus modern Atomic Theory such as in the case of oxidation/reduction. (Consider Lavoisier and Dalton.)

      Oh, another one that persisted in the 1800’s was the belief by Christians that ORGANIC chemicals could ONLY be produced by living things created by God—and never by anyone/anything else. So when Friedrich Wohler synthesized urea in the laboratory, some Christians refused to believe it. I’ve read varying reports of how long “denialists” held out against it.

      Anyway, I hope those examples give you enough keywords to dig deeper. I’ve had a computer crash and had to resort to some uncomfortable alternative equipment without my usual special

      • TomS

        One more. It was assumed that extinction was impossible. For God’s creation was good, and God would not permit any of his creatures to go extinct. When it began to be accepted that fossils were the remains of actual living things, it could could be believed that they still existed in the vast unexplored regions.
        Wasn’t there some opposition to using pain relievers and anesthesia in childbirth, in opposition to God’s order that Eve would have pain in childbirth?
        On the other hand, the humors were from the Classics, not the Bible.
        How many cases were there of opposition when the Bible didn’t actually have anything to say about it? I recall as a child complaints against the Van De Graaff generator producing lightning, which belongs properly to God – sort of like “I God had meant for man to fly, he would have given us wings.”

        • On the other hand, the humors were from the Classics, not the Bible.
          True, but Greek philosophers like Aristotle had become so entrenched as having prophet-like significance, even to the point of being part of God’s plan to reveal great truths to his people. That’s why scientists who appeared to defy Aristotle often got into big trouble with the Church.

          I got the impression that even the preservation of the ancient texts was seen as special divine providence –and that Christians should be grateful that God gave the Church such a gift. Here too I draw comparisons to a post-atomic-catastrophe world.

  4. Didn’t biblical Christians once mostly embrace ‘fixity of species’ (which does not appear UNbiblical)?

    • Yes, before “microevolution” became impossible to deny, fixity of species was a big deal among fundamentalists and virtually everybody else–because people saw animals reproducing much like themselves, so it seemed obvious to assume God created each as a separate organism.

      • TomS

        But there is nothing in the Bible about fixity of species.

        • But there is nothing in the Bible about fixity of species.
          In the 1960’s most YECs were still assuming that “each after its own kind” described fixity of species. That is, they assumed MIN (“kind”) was the same as a species. Not until microevolution was so obvious and undeniable that MIN/kind morphed into “fixity of kind”.

          Some also used the Apostle Paul’s statement about “different kinds of flesh” as referring to fixity of species.

  5. TomS

    The concept of species appeared in Early Modern Europe.

  6. Tom
    There is nothing in the Bible about speciation or natural selection.

    • TomS

      Agreed. The concepts are anachronistic. We have hints at spontaneous generation, which would not be surprising: Genesis 1, in the story of the Exodus, the story of the generation of the bees in the carcass of the lion slain by Samson.

  7. Liar and Hater Sorensen – also a coward and a fraud who censors or ignores informed opposition – is falsely attacking you AGAIN:
    http://www.piltdownsuperman.com/2015/06/viewing-dinosaurs-and-logical-fallacies.html

    • No doubt cowardly Bob is complaining about me on websites where he doesn’t allow comments. That and his fear of being copy-and-pasted reminds us of just how little confidence he has in his own ideas.

      Cowboy Bob, you are welcomed to come here and defend your #1 Best Argument/Evidence Against The Theory of Evolution. (Yes, porcine pilots will practice touch-and-go landings before Bob will muster enough courage to risk being shredded in a debate environment where he can’t control the postings.)

    • Curtis

      Where is anyone named in that link? Is informed opposition censored, or just jerks with big mouths?

      • Curtis

        Although that Sorensen blog (no comments permitted underneath) does not refer by name to ‘Prpfessor Tertius’ or the Bible.and.Science.forum, it is very obvious both to ‘Professor Tertius’ and myself WHO Sorensen was referring to. Sorensen has apparently unilaterally decided that the former is a liar and is actually an atheist who is pretending to be a Christian who also used to be a young Earth creationists but grew disillusioned with the way YECs make up facts, attack science, claim that all critics are spreading ‘lies’, and try to make the Bible address scientific topics that it never remotely touches upon, And he does not have the guts to try and justify his conduct here (unless of course you are he using another name – which I doubt). Sorensen censors both ‘jerks’ AND informed opposition (I am not a jerk though some of his opponents might be):
        http://forums.bcseweb.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3153&start=630

        Ashley H-R

  8. Oops – I meant “please try the link”.

  9. Ashley, I’ve found it fascinating that Bob includes just enough clues to make sure the parties he’s criticizing know that he is referring to them yet NOT including actually names or links which would facilitate the readers seeing the debates and reaching their own conclusions about merits of arguments, etc.

    The only time I can recall Bob openly commenting in a two-sided dialogue where he couldn’t use his usual tactics was at the Worldview Warrior forum—although it was a YEC-friendly site and wasn’t that the one where moderation would delay my posts for weeks at a time? I can’t remember.

    In any case, between his various Facebook and Piltdown pages, he certainly shows his colors. Not until more recently did I read about his being disciplined for various antics on other websites such as Youtube.

  10. And as I said, I’m a big fan of Cowboy Bob. He’s welcomed to post here anytime. Indeed, once I get back full use of my hands, I’d love to debate him here on some of his favorite claims. (We could start with his claim that I’m an atheist. I’ve not known many atheists involved in Bible translation but I’m curious how he determined that I’m an atheist, especially when I write so many articles expressing my Christian theism.)

  11. P.S. What I found especially fascinating about his accusations against me was how he would state the accusations and then show “evidence” which was from some unrelated post on another forum where he had crossed out the person’s identity. So he seemed to reason “Some people are guilty of X…so I think that is what he is doing also. This is my proof.” In fact, when I first read his website, that was one of many reasons why I thought he was an obvious parody. I had seen anti-theist websites do such parodies.

  12. Curtis

    You decry censorship, but my last comment was deleted and the first ones were moderated, how ironic. I will copy this comment for the record.

    You have made many allegations, but do not substantiate anything. Calling Bob a liar without any evidence is ridiculous, and frankly I say that YOU are both liars. Disciplined for abuse on YouTube? Prove it. Taking about you? Prove it. You can reason effectively? Not demonstrated with all your “he’s talking about me” crap. Your ridicule and bad thinking shows that he is wise in ignoring your challenges for debate since he would defeat you easily and quickly.

    Using my own investigative resources, I have examined the posts of Ashley Haworth-Roberts. His hatred for Sorensen is palpable. When I asked for substantiation, I was called a jerk. He has not properly used reason, and Sorensen has thoroughly documented this fact.

    There are other things I’ve noticed. AHR attacks people via Facebook messages who support Sorensen and his Project Sorensen is allowed to post on CMI’s site, AHR is not. Sorensen has also made a video that CMI has embedded on their site. He has several years of blogging on his own sites and as a guest on other sites. He has made videos that big names like Ken Ham and Eric Hovind have enjoyed. His Facebook page has 4,741 likes. He has had several interviews on radio and podcasts. He has the respect of intelligent people. He started Question Evolution Day, which has the support of many people and has garnered some media attention. His writing has personality and humorous graphics and other things including informative videos. His review of a Sarfati book is linked at CMI.

    My conclusion is that you’re both jealous, both the guy that hides because he’s afraid of creationists (what a pile of crap) and the angry atheist. I’ll leave you to your circle fest now.

    • Are you talking to Prof Tertius or to me or to both of us (this in not my site)? If me, I have repeatedly proven Bob to be a liar at the BCSE link that I provided previously and the contents of which you are trying to ignore despite saying you have read parts of it. Just ONE example of Bob’s pathological lying was outlined in a series of posts – reacting to stuff he was posting online about me – on 24 May 2015:
      http://forums.bcseweb.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3664&p=50392&hilit=deleted#p50392
      Tell me how this page does ‘not’ prove Bob lied. If you can.

      I suspect that Bob might have asked you to come here and libel us. It’s happened before on other sites – ‘Mister Gordons’, ‘Anonymous’ etc etc ‘stooges’ suddenly appear when Bob has either lost an argument or dares not to debate someone who blogs/writes accurately in an open forum about him and his online claims.

      And the word ‘jerk’ was first used by you not me. Looks like you can’t take what you want to dish out.

      And we are ‘jealous’. Are you serious?

      But I gather you are now departing. Farewell and Good Bye. I expect Bob will be pleased with your attempts to label us both ‘liars’. Exceot that you CANNOT prove your allegation. Can you?

  13. Curtis wrote:
    You decry censorship, but my last comment was deleted and the first ones were moderated, how ironic.

    I don’t know who the “you” is in your complaint because it is not clear if you are addressing the Bible.and.Science.Forum or the forum which Ashley Haworth-Roberts writes and often references here.

    The Bible.and.Science.Forum has only censored ONE posted comment in the history of this webpage. (It was off-topic spam.) Curtis, if any comment has been deleted here, it would have had to have been by WordPress administrators. Yet, they would surely inform you or us in that case.

    As to MODERATION of comments, this forum has never placed anyone on moderation. Apparently WordPress automatically places the first one or two comments from any particular address on moderation automatically. In fact, even my own first two comments on this forum went through moderation! As a result, to speed their appearance, I had to log-in to WordPress as an administrator for the blog and approve my own comment!

    So, Curtis, if you have complaints about moderation and censorship here, you need to contact WordPress. Your beef is with them. Also, if you tell me the date(s) and time(s) when the alleged “moderations” or deletions/censorship occurred, I will log in as an administrator and see if WordPress has posted any annotations in the blog’s log history which might explain what happened. (I already checked the WordPress logs to see if anyone with the Bible.and.Science.Forum has logged in to make any changes here and I found zilch. No deletions. Nobody put on moderation. Zero.)

    Commenters at The Sensuous Curmudgeon’s WordPress blog occasionally post mention of their latest comment being deleted and the blog owner always posts a comment in reply telling them to try posting it again. He has always stated that he has no control or knowledge over such glitches and so I assume that these are simply flukes in the system. Sometimes programmers behind these large websites fine-tune their spam-detection filters and/or their profanity algorithms and strange malfunctions result. Not so long ago I posted a rather technical linguistics essay in a comment under an Amazon book review. I explained how even today’s English language taboos against certain types of Germanic words but not those of Norman-French/Latin derivation with identical meanings (particularly human reproductive and excretory terms) demonstrates how the Battle of Hastings (1066) and the class discrimination and bigotry which followed survive to this day. Despite the fact that I carefully used asterisks to mask particular examples of such “bad words”, I got an automatic warning message from Amazon the moment I posted. So I “sanitized” the essay even further and reposted. Within several hours I got a very stern email explaining the deletion of my post as a violation of Amazon’s standards and that I would be banned if I reposted it. I printed out the essay and the warning for the department bulletin board and everyone’s amusement.

    So, if you have been the victim of some automated filter, you would not be the first.

  14. Curtis wrote:
    When I asked for substantiation, I was called a jerk.

    Even though I’m asking you to substantiate that you have been “censored” or put on moderation here, I’m certainly not going to call you a jerk. I’m simply extending to you the same courtesy to you as I would everybody else.

    Moreover, if you either post here or email to Bible.and.Science.Forum at the Gmail domain the comment-post which failed to appear here, that would give me a simple means of checking the Admin records to perhaps determined what happened.

    Meanwhile, I can only assure you that nobody with the Bible.and.Science.Forum has deleted or placed on moderation anybody in a very long time.

    Neither on this platform nor on the old Bible.and.Science.Forum email list (an old-style discussion via broadcast emails to a subscriber list) have we had to publish a detailed “community standards” list of do’s and don’t. After seeing so many “creation science” websites censor alternative viewpoints (and even questions the “creation scientists” couldn’t answer) and banning URLs or even identifying titles and names which would allow readers to assess for themselves the webpages and articles being criticized, that’s certainly not behavior we are going to emulate here. [There are certainly times when casual posts may not provide completed footnotes and bibliography. But if anybody asked for more information so that they could find the webpage or material in question, we would certainly expect authors to help inquirers find what they described.]

    I don’t always have time to post and/or debate here or anywhere else. And at times my disabilities slow me down–I use vision-assistance software and sometimes I must resort to tedious dictation software when I can’t type–but I can usually interact with everyone, eventually.

    I’m not even adverse to some large/long postings in these comment sections, yet, if too overwhelming we might suggest that an author summarize and provide a link to their own website where they can provide as many arguments and details they wish.

    As to the blog article above about Cowboy Bob Sorensen, he is welcomed any rejoinder he wishes. In fact, he is also welcomed to respond to any or all of the questions Young Earth Creationists can’t answer at:
    The April Fools Day Massacre & the Seven Deadly Questions YECists Dread.

    Indeed, I’ve been challenging “creation scientists” and their fans to address those issues for years. They always go silent and disappear. I would be delighted if you or Bob would step up to the plate and be the very first to show that Young Earth Creationists have backbones if not answers. What we usually get is just a lot of complaints about “discrimination” and unfairness and then they go hide. Back in the 1960’s and 1970’s when I was part of the early stages of the “creation science” movement, things were quite different. We didn’t have much real science but we definitely had enough confidence in our viewpoint to stand up to scrutiny and open dialogue. Today, the CS movement “plays it safe” most of the time in its own totally-controlled echo chambers. There the dishonest quote-mines and misrepresentations of the real science and terminology can be safely spewed without fear of challenge, correction, or exposure to the truth.

    I would be thrilled to see a Young Earth Creationist prove me wrong. I know that plenty of honorable YECs exist–but in positions of activism and leadership, they are very hard to fine. I commend Dr. Todd Wood. Yet, he is the exception which helps underscore the rule. His honesty and willingness to recognize actual science is both commendable and rare among his colleagues in YEC-dom. So it has never surprised me that he struggles for funding and a lot of YEC leaders treat him as a traitor.

    Jesus said, “By their fruits you will know them.” And we do.

  15. I was hoping that Curtis would explain why Bob goes to such extreme lengths to discourage readers of his webpages from copy-and-pasting what he writes. I’ve never seen a real science website or anyone in Biblical studies try to prevent people from quoting them.

    So I would love to have a Young Earth Creationist explain why this contrast.

  16. Curtis Long, Sorensen, and the low-life Bill Roam (who sent me a highly offensive link recently) are still whining about both of us and calling us ‘liars’ in the cowardly way that such YECs do ie they do it on forums/pages from which we are banned so we cannot even defend ourselves let alone prove THEM to be liars (as I’ve done at the BCSE community forum but liar Long pretends otherwise). Long is claiming you are a ‘fake professor’ but that is just hatred since he can prove NOTHING either way. And Sorensen lies twice in response by saying our behaviour towards him has been “ridicule, since they have nothing else” and “both have lied about me”. No – Bob has lied about BOTH of US:
    http://forums.bcseweb.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3153&start=630 (see my comments on 24 May in particular)
    Sorensen also accuses me of ‘trolling’ when he really means that I show online YECs how they are wrong about science and that is ‘unacceptable behaviour’. As for the babyish Bill Roam, he is rank HYPOCRITE – he whinges about allegedly ‘nasty’ messages I sent to him on Facebook. When, as I highlighted on 26 May at the Sorensen thread on the BCSE community forum, Roam then sent me THIS (warning – it is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE and would lead to his post being deleted on ANY responsible forum and perhaps a permanent ban as well: http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy/ )

    Note also that NONE of the liars link to this specific page so any honest Sorensen followers (assuming they exist) can see BOTH sides of the argument and make up their own mind about WHO is ‘lying’. They clearly have authoritarian tendencies and have somehow rationalised their own lying.

    These people deserve the contempt they receive from non-Christians and even some Christians. Their fundamentalism, reflex lying, attempted concealment of facts and hatred for other viewpoints is scary (they may have ALWAYS been liars of course – which is why they now love YEC-ism and refuse to engage properly with critics and refuse to deal with the real issues in a specific way, preferring childish putdowns instead). I’m about to email to expose the latest lying libel from these cowardly bigots.
    https://www.facebook.com/Piltdown.Superman (see the discussion under the Why Outreach link)

    I am not trying to silence YECs even if I could. But if they lie (or honestly parrot other peoples’ lies) I see it as a duty to try and correct them (whether on blogs or privately by email).

  17. Sorry, this link should have been at the beginning of my preceding post: https://www.facebook.com/Piltdown.Superman

  18. I’m re-posting the first post – in INSTALMENTS:

    Curtis Long, Sorensen, and the low-life Bill Roam (who sent me a highly offensive link recently) are still whining about both of us and calling us ‘liars’ in the cowardly way that such YECs do ie they do it on forums/pages from which we are banned so we cannot even defend ourselves let alone prove THEM to be liars (as I’ve done at the BCSE community forum but liar Long pretends otherwise). Long is claiming you are a ‘fake professor’ but that is just hatred since he can prove NOTHING either way. And Sorensen lies twice in response by saying our behaviour towards him has been “ridicule, since they have nothing else” and “both have lied about me”. No – Bob has lied about BOTH of US:
    http://forums.bcseweb.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3153&start=630 (see my comments on 24 May in particular)

    cont’d

    • Sorensen also accuses me of ‘trolling’ when he really means that I show online YECs how they are wrong about science and that is ‘unacceptable behaviour’. As for the babyish Bill Roam, he is rank HYPOCRITE – he whinges about allegedly ‘nasty’ messages I sent to him on Facebook. When, as I highlighted on 26 May at the Sorensen thread on the BCSE community forum, Roam then sent me THIS (warning – it is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE and would lead to his post being deleted on ANY responsible forum and perhaps a permanent ban as well: http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy/ )

      Note also that NONE of the liars link to this specific page so any honest Sorensen followers (assuming they exist) can see BOTH sides of the argument and make up their own mind about WHO is ‘lying’. They clearly have authoritarian tendencies and have somehow rationalised their own lying.

      cont’d

      • These people deserve the contempt they receive from non-Christians and even some Christians. Their fundamentalism, reflex lying, attempted concealment of facts and hatred for other viewpoints is scary (they may have ALWAYS been liars of course – which is why they now love YEC-ism and refuse to engage properly with critics and refuse to deal with the real issues in a specific way, preferring childish putdowns instead). I’m about to email to expose the latest lying libel from these cowardly bigots.
        https://www.facebook.com/Piltdown.Superman (see the discussion under the Why Outreach link)

        I am not trying to silence YECs even if I could. But if they lie (or honestly parrot other peoples’ lies) I see it as a duty to try and correct them (whether on blogs or privately by email).

        [End]

  19. Further email just sent in response to Liar Sorensen lying about lying since reading my preceding comment:

    PS Bob has just PROVEN himself as the Liar that we all know he is.

    He wrote on his Facebook page around an hour ago:
    “I see. They lie about lying, and Haywire says he proved that I’m a liar. How? By saying it over and over. Meanwhile, I’ve proved that he’s been lying about me. In fact, he owes me an apology for several of his falsehoods, including the claim that none of my Weblogs allow comments.”

    I genuinely thought when I said it that NO Sorensen blog allows comments (his main blog does NOT). I have since admitted that I was mistaken. I was NOT ‘lying’. But Bob IS lying – out of hatred.

    I have lost times I have proven Sorensen to be a serial Liar (eg on 24 May this year). Full details are HERE (and Bob cannot delete them):
    http://forums.bcseweb.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3153&start=630

    The ball is in HIS court to prove that he did ‘not’ lie and therefore I am ‘lying’ by saying that he did – and does.

    But of course he NEVER will do that. Instead he will demonise me on his Facebook like the coward that he is. (And never supply any links that incriminate him.)

    The man is evil.

    cont’d

  20. He is also thin-skinned and ‘precious’ about his ‘reputation’. He thinks he should receive an apology from me! I have never made such demands of him. I don’t need his apologies, sincere or insincere. It is satisfaction enough to be able to totally refute every single accusation he has ever made against me as well as many of his bogus sciencey claims.)

    If Bob was not a liar he could and he would come clear his name on sites like this (which he or one his stooges is keeping an eye on since he says he blocks my emails):
    https://bibleandscienceforum.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/speaking-of-favorite-yec-hecklers-how-to-copy-and-paste-cowboy-bobs-hilarious-howlers/#comments

    But he is and he won’t even dare try.

    Give it UP Bob. You cannot win this battle. You will continue to lose.

    [end]

  21. The sheer HATRED by Sorensen against me:
    http://stormbringer005.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/brilliant-atheists-agnostics-saving.html#comment-form
    He ‘allows’ comments under this blog. Big Deal. He still ‘controls’ them by censoring anything he cannot try and falsely use against informed critics.

    cont’d

  22. http://stormbringer005.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/national-day-of-unreason.html
    I comment of mine did appear under this pack of lies. So HOW can I ‘still’ be repeating the ‘falsehood’, as alleged by liar Bob earlier this evening, that “none of [his] Weblogs allow comments”. I can’t.

    What a hypocrite and a coward – as well.

    PS Bob has been INVITED to come on here a defend himself. But he is afraid to. It is pretty obvious why. But we live in continued expectation that he might – one day – repent of his lying (supernatural; intervention is needed it would seem, since exposure by people like me simply hardens him in his hatred and makes him lie again – and play to the gallery of fellow liars who frequent his hate pages – to try and hide the previous lies).

    [end]

  23. Further necessary email (copied to Bob and also much wider; a preceding message contained a photo of Bob’s lying comment where he ):

    https://www.facebook.com/Piltdown.Superman
    The LYING FRAUD – who should read my emails instead of trying to hide from them – HAS just deleted all the comments (including his own). We all know WHY. But he has come out with some dishonest c**p to try and save his skin (I have a photo of it):
    “Curtis and Bill, my apologies, but I have to delete the comments. I allowed myself to get involved in that discussion, but should not be giving that dishonest stalker the attention that his massive, dishonest ego craves. That windbag “Professor’ Decimus also wants attention. But I do appreciate your support! -CBB”.

    I am not ‘dishonest’ nor wanting to be falsely libelled by you. Go to hell, hate-filled Liar and Hypocrite. You are a disgrace.

    And, despite trying to ignore me, next chance he gets he will doubtless call me a ‘liar’ again (eg for condemning libellous comments – comments now deleted because I exposed the hypocritical and utterly dishonest behaviour of those making them, and he has NO response because he has been Found Out). Though of course he will simply say again – without evidence – “Haywire is a Liar” without even telling the nutters who follow his pages what ‘lies’ I have told (they lap up the c**p).

    cont’d

  24. Slight correction to my post timed at 11.18 pm.

    I meant to write “Further necessary email (copied to Bob and also much wider; a preceding message contained a photo of Bob’s lying comment where he wrote as follows below):
    “I see. They lie about lying, and Haywire says he proved that I’m a liar. How? By saying it over and over. Meanwhile, I’ve proved that he’s been lying about me. In fact, he owes me an apology for several of his falsehoods, including the claim that none of my Weblogs allow comments.”

    Less than two hours ago Sorensen thought it was OK to falsely claim “I’ve proved that he’s been lying about me”. Now, after being exposed as a hate-filled liar by email he suddenly thinks he “should not be giving that dishonest stalker the attention that his massive, dishonest ego craves”. Oops – his lying has backfired on him. So he’d better hastily delete the earlier lying and claim instead that he is giving me too much ‘attention’.

    What utter Cobblers.

    An honest Christian would not have lied in the first place. But I do not think this man IS a Christian – just a Bible thumper and hater of science he does not like.

    Even now he cannot resist lying yet again and calling me ‘dishonest’. Something he has been trying for YEARS and YEARS to pin upon me.

    And will he acknowledge or link to these posts – the link will now be added to the BCSE community forum because Sorensen is so utterly mendacious and hypocritical – ah a flying pig before sunrise seems like a likelier possibility.

    All this from an attention seeker ‘par excellence’, goaded by the lowlife that hang around on his Facebook (some of whom definitely are not Christians). But the lowlife nutters on his pages will go away believing the Sorensen lies (or pretending to which is even worse).

  25. PS in one other comment that Sorensen has suddenly deleted the groupie Curtis Long – a recent guest here but he has apparently run away in order to libel you elsewhere – said of you “He’s a Poe” and suggested that you aren’t a Christian. Well, unlike him, I don’t disbelieve you and call you a ‘liar’.

    More strong evidence of a creationist making up his own claimed facts. And not having the guts to make his allegations to you directly.

    These people utterly stink. I would say it to them on their sites – except that I cannot, because I am banned ‘for eternity’. (Though I will send the link to Long via Facebook, if I can find his page again after Sorensen deleted his complaints.)

  26. in one other comment that Sorensen has suddenly deleted the groupie Curtis Long

    Amazing. I wonder what happened.

  27. I now see that the hypocrite Long commented to Sorensen yesterday: “No problem. I have resources with my department and have law enforcement connections in the UK and elsewhere. Let me know if you want assistance in dealing with these mentally unbalanced libelers.” What a load of bluster. Apparently, according to his Facebook page, he used to work in ‘Law Enforcement’ – in America. (And was previously in the US Army. Gosh that’s scary.)
    Of course him libelling YOU as ‘Poe’ on Facebook is perfectly ‘fine’ it would seem. But me refuting Sorensen lies is allegedly a ‘law enforcement’ issue.

  28. I sent a Facebook message to Long, linking back to this thread. But it probably went from my O2 email address that the appalling O2 recently closed down, along with other customers, and also refused to help me access any more. Rather than from my other email account. So, if he sees my message and replies, I doubt I will see it.

  29. “Just because I don’t think your expressions of hate and your rants are evidence to support your claims? I have read nothing but allegations from people who do not know how to use reason.” You haven’t answered my question at 8.30 pm on 3 July.

    Thus I will now say that you ARE most definitely a jerk.

  30. Remo Wilson

    Hey ***hole, I see you found another corner to *** in since you got kicked off that worthless forum. I did research too but my comment was censored from Worldview Warriors. I know all about you.

    The reason you went nuts and tried to ***** ***** ** was because of a failed ****** *********. The ******* mesh implant didn’t work and your lawsuit failed. Now you blame God for all your problems that you caused for yourself and the ones from the legal system. That’s the biz, ********.

    • Remo Wilson

      LOL you bunch of lying hypocrites! I was regretting my harshness, but the CENSORSHIP you did actually made it look worse than it really was! Not one profanity was in the original. Nada. HAW!

      • Remo Wilson

        Liar! You made it look like it was profanity loaded and idiots like Hateworth will assume it was true. By the way where did I ever say I was a YEC? HUH??? I told paranoid Hateworth and others that I hate liars and bullies. He’s both, and this pretend professor is just plain nuts. But he must be happy to find another place to whine in. Get a blog.

  31. Looks like the foul-mouthed Voice from the Gutter, otherwise known as Remo Wilson, has been informed by the two-faced fundie bigot Breeden of my email sent to the bible.and.science.forum (and copied to Breeden) reporting my attempted comment here:
    https://siriusknotts.wordpress.com/2015/07/08/10-theological-questions-theistic-evolutionists-think-no-young-earth-creationist-can-answer-the-final-insult/#comments

    The email read: “I tried to post the following – but I remain blocked by Breeden. Perhaps he will read the comment about Wilson though.
    “Ah yes – Remo Wilson speaks. He spoke before: http://forums.bcseweb.org.uk/search.php?keywords=remo&t=3477&sf=msgonly (see in particular my post dated 16 April 2014) Is Remo pretending that his behaviour is ‘Christian’ – or is he simply a non-Christian and creationist who is also an expert on who is and who is not a Christian (real people not imaginary people)?””

    So much hatred these people have for everybody who dares challenge their judgementalism and bigotry. They apparently don’t care about the damage they do to the cause of Christianity.

    They are liars too. The only forums I have been kicked off are anti-science young earth creationist ones. I was posting the wrong sort of truth.

    Yes Worldview Warriors (Wolcott and Risner there are YEC ideologues) are censoring me as well, as I have reported at the BCSE community forum. But what on earth the blogs at Worldview Warriors have to do with THIS thread I do not know. Do you know yourself?

    You, Remo, deserve to be censored here. But – Professor Tertius – please let his comment REMAIN. So people can see what a piece of s*** he is. (If your attempted comment at WW’s was like your lying poison above, no wonder you got censored. You are clearly a piece of s***. Should you reply again I will not waste time replying further since you can do nothing apart from spew hatred and lies.)

  32. Looks like the foul-mouthed Voice from the Gutter, otherwise known as Remo Wilson, has been informed by the two-faced fundie bigot Breeden of my email sent to the bible.and.science.forum (and copied to Breeden) reporting my attempted comment here:
    https://siriusknotts.wordpress.com/2015/07/08/10-theological-questions-theistic-evolutionists-think-no-young-earth-creationist-can-answer-the-final-insult/#comments

    cont’d

  33. The email read: “I tried to post the following – but I remain blocked by Breeden. Perhaps he will read the comment about Wilson though.
    “Ah yes – Remo Wilson speaks. He spoke before: http://forums.bcseweb.org.uk/search.php?keywords=remo&t=3477&sf=msgonly (see in particular my post dated 16 April 2014) Is Remo pretending that his behaviour is ‘Christian’ – or is he simply a non-Christian and creationist who is also an expert on who is and who is not a Christian (real people not imaginary people)?””

    So much hatred these people have for everybody who dares challenge their judgementalism and bigotry. They apparently don’t care about the damage they do to the cause of Christianity.

    They are liars too. The only forums I have been kicked off are anti-science young earth creationist ones. I was posting the wrong sort of truth.

    Yes Worldview Warriors (Wolcott and Risner there are YEC ideologues) are censoring me as well, as I have reported at the BCSE community forum. But what on earth the blogs at Worldview Warriors have to do with THIS thread I do not know. Do you know yourself?

    You, Remo, deserve to be censored here. But – Professor Tertius – please let his comment REMAIN. So people can see what a piece of s*** he is. (If your attempted comment at WW’s was like your lying poison above, no wonder you got censored. You are clearly a piece of s***. Should you reply again I will not waste time replying further since you can do nothing apart from spew hatred and lies.)

    [end]

  34. Ashley,
    Saito, the admin, had already replaced the vulgarities in Remo’s post with asterisks. But that should serve us well. Readers can see that he hasn’t ben blocked.

  35. (My post already had the asterisks.)

  36. Email as just sent (copied to Sorensen):

    http://www.piltdownsuperman.com/2015/07/evolutionists-and-atheists-love-to-pick.html
    “I’ve been called a “liar” without evidence …”.

    cont’d

  37. Not by ME Liar Sorensen. Despite your previous claims to the contrary. I have repeatedly called Sorensen a ‘liar’ WITH evidence – each time he has repeatedly lied or tried to cover his tracks by lying that he is ‘not’ ever a liar. And he reacts by waving away all the evidence, refusing to address a single piece, and then calling me a ‘liar’ on Facebook – as I reported in detail at this blog on 4 and 5 July:
    https://bibleandscienceforum.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/speaking-of-favorite-yec-hecklers-how-to-copy-and-paste-cowboy-bobs-hilarious-howlers/#comments

    Hypocrite.

    God is not fooled by the ‘poor persecuted me, rich is my reward in heaven’ routine from this person.”

    [end]

  38. Email as just sent:

    CURTIS LONG – LIAR FOR JESUS.

    https://www.facebook.com/Piltdown.Superman
    “You don’t want a certain nutty stalker to get attention, I know that. But I want to tell you that he ironically proved this article right by selectively citing it to attack you and then ignoring the rest of it. There are other things being said that are face palm worthy. Wonder if he’s got dissociative identity disorder. If he does, I wonder how he has other personalities that are a trifle smarter than he is. Too funny! I won’t post the link unless you want it.”

    cont’d

  39. The Liar Long has obviously seen my comment last night HERE:
    https://bibleandscienceforum.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/speaking-of-favorite-yec-hecklers-how-to-copy-and-paste-cowboy-bobs-hilarious-howlers/

    But, rather than reply to me directly, this ‘jerk’ has gone behind my back to lie on Sorensen’s Facebook page (knowing that I cannot refute him there because Liar Sorensen has banned me).

    I did NOT ‘selectively’ cite Sorensen’s blog post. He has NOT demonstrated that I did. I quoted what was RELEVANT. What else does Long think I ‘should’ have quoted. I also – unlike Liar Long – provided the link I was quoting from and also typed “I’ve been called a “liar” without evidence …” thus making clear that I was not quoting Sorensen in full (because there was no need to).

    Perhaps I should have pointed out that if a person like Sorensen lies REPEATEDLY and I Repeatedly point out the fact, I am NOT committing a ‘fallacy’ as suggested by Liar and Coward Sorensen (he’s too cowardly to interact with me directly and he sometimes lies about me on his blogs without actually naming me – or indeed ANYBODY – because it’s easier to attack without allowing readers to investigate whether the attack has ANY merit)?

    The rest of Long’s comments are sheer bile and mudslinging. In other words, normal behaviour by the lowlife who like Sorensen’s Facebook posts and blogs.

    This reply is being added to the bible.and.science.forum blog.

    [end]

  40. Remo Wilson

    //AHR, it’s funny how they are so paranoid about posting my name (much less an actual link) for fear that their readers will judge for themselves. //

    Probably because you’re not worth the time.

  41. No, it’s because it is easier to lie successfully about critics’ blogs/blog discussions if you don’t bother post a link to the blog in question. I ALWAYS post the relevant links thus Long’s criticism of me is totally dishonest – and you are simply being obnoxious and mendacious, which is all you have EVER been Wilson.

  42. Within the past couple of hours the hypocrite and liar Sorensen, or possibly one of his administrators speaking on his behalf, wrote on his facebook hate page ‘The Question Evolution Project’/’Piltdown Superman’, replying to Long:

    “I know where to look, thanks. Lots of mindless hate, demonic oppression does that to people, especially when they’re small frogs in a big pond.”

    I DO hate liars Bob. I have exposed your continued lying and hate more times than I can remember:
    http://forums.bcseweb.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3153

    Satan and demons by contrast love liars and lying, I’m sure you would agree Bob.

  43. I see some coward has been voting my posts down …

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