Stupid Things Young Earth Creationists Say

“That’s the biggest problem for evolution: how life got started!”
—- Jeff Tomkins, PhD in Genetics, Institute for Creation Research

Really, Jeff? Let’s think about that:

“That’s the biggest problem for photosynthesis: how light got started.”

“That’s the biggest problem for Atomic Theory: how atoms got started.”

“That’s the biggest problem for Prime Number Theory: how prime numbers got started.”

“That’s the biggest problem for relativity: how all my relatives got started.”

“That’s the biggest problem for creation science: lots of creation, no science.”

— Professor Tertius

If you cross ICR and ISIS, what do you get?

I don’t know. Both are too defiant to listen to reason. But with ICR you’ve got a group of people who hate science enough to ignore all of the overwhelming evidence for evolution diversifying life on earth.

I don’t care how often ICR and AIG claim, “We love Science!”.  Their tradition-based propaganda harms science education–and the damage is world. As I’ve explained in countless venues over the years, Young Earth Creationism has much more to do with TRADITION than the Biblical TEXT. (Before Morris & Whitcomb published The Genesis Flood in 1962, only a small percentage of evangelical and fundamentalist Christians were passionate about a young earth viewpoint. Yet, after a half century of steady “creation science” propaganda, it’s the only view the younger generations have ever known. Many assume YECism is intrinsic to Biblical Christianity all the way back to the first century apostles. So regardless of the actual age of a cherished belief, once a dogma has achieved that august status, it’s a TRADITION which must be defended at all cost.  Welcome to the YECist world, where the TRADITION always beats the EVIDENCE, no matter the quality and quantity of compelling evidence.)

With the various Young Earth Creationist origins ministries spending many millions of dollars annually, you’ve got a powerful destructive force harming science education throughout the world.

“Young Earth Creationism:  Just say no!” — Professor Tertius


(c) 2015. Professor Tertius & the Bible.and.Science.Forum at Gmail.com.
All rights reserved. Email us at Gmail.com address for permissions on reposting and publication.

Thank you for sharing Professor Tertius’ URL on Facebook!
https://bibleandscienceforum.wordpress.com/



Reader Alert:

Mr. Armitage was furious at Professor Tertius so we know our efforts to educate the public do matter.  Please sharing our link on relevant forums.  Armitage is seeking crowd-funding for a “dinosaur soft tissue research center” and the last thing science education in America needs is yet another Young Earth Creationist propaganda machine. We know that home-schoolers’ cooperatives are already promoting Armitage as a “martyr of creation science.”  Based on email feedback from Christian readers, Armitage’s failed pseudo-logic and his angry rants against Dr. Mary Schweitzer do matter–especially to YECs who realize that she is a Christian evangelical who is simply following the evidence where it leads.  Please share on relevant forums Professor Tertius’ expose on Armitage at:

https://bibleandscienceforum.wordpress.com/2015/08/21/arguments-so-bad-its-hard-to-turn-away-mark-armitage/

Advertisements

39 Comments

Filed under Uncategorized

39 responses to “Stupid Things Young Earth Creationists Say

  1. It’s not a problem if you are a theistic evolutionist (but Jeff isn’t so uses the lack of knowledge about how – scientifically – life started to deny evolution per se and claim that young earth creationism ‘must’ be true instead).

    Of course we know exactly how and why Christian young earth creationism got started … it became necessary for fundamentalist Christianity as there was too much scientific knowledge out there that conflicted with biblical teachings and doctrines – and thus needed to be (repeatedly) REFUTED.

    • Thanks, Ashley. I may feature that page in an upcoming blog essay. The falsehoods-per-paragraph ratio is especially high in that one. And the cartoons are…..exceptionally stupid and even….void of anything meaningful. The entire page seems to be nothing but a series of denials by means of simple protest.

      One would think complaints about “evolutionists have all the money” would be starting to ring hollow when Ham can raise an extra $79 million to build his ark park.

      • Remo

        How much does it cost to join American Atheists, again? How much does it cost to join the Richard Dawkins clubs, again, and he’s one of the richest men in Britain? Liars like you make it sound like the money is going into Ham’s pockets, and Hateworth loves to push the lies he’s been told as well as making up his own crap.

        • Is Remo stoned? What’s he trying to say?

          How much does it cost to join American Atheists, again? How much does it cost to join the Richard Dawkins clubs, again, and he’s one of the richest men in Britain?

          I don’t see any mention of Dawkins in the article or the comments. Is he replying to a comment that was deleted before I saw it?

          Liars like you make it sound like the money is going into Ham’s pockets,

          Who is the “you”? And what is the money about? Whatever, but I don’t see anything about Ken Ham pocketing money.

        • …and Hateworth loves to push the lies he’s been told as well as making up his own crap.

          I’ve noticed lots of creationists doing that with names. Do they all think themselves clever and the first to change Prof Tertius to Prof Turdious/Turdonus/Turdius ? I see them on Amazon and ChristianForums and they giggle like little kids. With Mr. Hayworth-Roberts I saw I think a “Hatewords” on the Cowboy Bob S site. Maybe that’s why this Remo guy never has time to make an actual science argument or to defend his yecism: He’s too busy trying to think up a name joke. Real special. I could join in and call Remo “Retard”. But thats probably just giving the kid all the attention he craves. Probably a latchkey kid. That’s what you get with bored kids with no parents around.

          It is funny that Ken Ham and his scientists complain that evolutionists can do expensive research projects and make scientific discoveries “but we can’t” because creationists can’t get the grant monies. But as you said, Ham has a lot of money coming in which Answers in Genesis could spend on scientific research if they wanted. I heard it is about 24 million dollars a year.

          The 79 million dollars for the Noah’s Ark is separate! What if Ham said to his donors, “Even better than a tourist attraction based on an ark building that will never float and can’t match a Noah’s Ark, let’s build the world’s first laboratory devoted to creation science.”

          He won’t though. With a lab, he’d have to do himself some science. LOL. People would ask “What creation science discoveries have you made?” A tourist trap is easier. No pressure to do scientific research!

          If Remo (

          I

          • Sorry about the junk under my post. I wish WordPress would allow us to edit!

            • Remo

              Where did I say I’m a creationist and why don’t you call **************** * * * * * * * * * * *********************************************************
              ************ * * * * * * * * * * * *************************** * * * * * *

              Remo, your post has been put aside and will be restored in its entirety when and if you adequately address the lack of specifics in your previous accusations. If you have time for new tirades, you have time to follow the instructions I gave you.

              Saito S.
              BSF Admin

  2. Remo Wilson
    You are a waste of space because you accuse me of making up ‘crap’ – but you can prove NO such thing. Can you?

    • Mr. Haworth-Roberts, I can’t tell him he is replying to a comment that got removed or if he’s just tripping. Sounds like some strong stuff he’s doing. Paranoia and combative talk is very typical. My brother was that way for three years before he got cleaned up. I do feel sorry for anybody in that hell. (Oops. Will WordPress complain about that four letter word? Maybe not. But sorry, Saito if that’s your job!)

      • Remo

        Yeah, you’re a real christian that’s for sure. Makes me want to convert.

        • “Yeah, you’re a real christian that’s for sure. Makes me want to convert.”

          Great! We get some great emails about that. I used to think American Christians were all young earther nuts and Lying for Jesus hypocrites to the bone. Professor Tertius’ was the first real and scholarly type of Christian I got to work with and see up close. He was my faculty advisor for my first year of graduate school.

          Saito
          BSF Admin

    • Remo

      xxxx xxxxx xxx xx xxxxxxx.

      ADMIN SAYS: Remo failed to back up his accusations about another commenter with evidence. After a final warning and challenge, this comment was deleted 24 hours later.

      • your lies are on record

        You have 24 hours from the time of posting to specify (1) who has lied, (2) where, and (3) your specific evidence of lying. If you fail to do so, the ambiguous accusatory post will be deleted.

        Also, as I look at your comments, they are void of any content relevant to the articles under which you post. So far I only see complaining about people you don’t like. That is tedious and pointless and contributes nothing to origins topics or any other worthwhile topic.

        Have you ever considered providing evidence or analysis of some Bible and Science topic? Or do you have no opinions on these topics?

        It appears that you deny what you fear and provide nothing more.

        Saito S.
        BSF Admin

  3. I was trying to send a screen-shot of a WordPress error to Mr. Saito but I’m getting a strange bounce-back about the attachment is illegal type. Or something like that. Is there an alternate address I can use?

    • JITR, I don’t know which of Saito’s email adresses you were using but you can try the Bible.and.Science.Forum general address where you simply add to that string the “@” symbol and then the domain Gmail.com. You can put a BSF associate’s name in the subject field and it will get forwarded. Or you can actually do it direct by using Gmail.com “+” convention. That is, just before the “@” you can have a string like “+Saito@” followed by the Gmail.com. We have filters which use what is between the “+” and the “@” to reach the person’s preference. (A copy also goes in the general email in-box at gmail.com for Bible.and.Science.Forum at gmail.com, just like there was no “+” used.)

      By the way, “Saito” is his first name, at least in America, so the “Mr. Saito” is like calling Ken Ham “Mr. Ken”: nobody will be offended but it will sound a little strange. (Perhaps you were using his “admin” address, because he handles technical aspects of all of the websites.)

  4. If Remo actually posted a real science argument again evolution, that would be the first trumpet of Revelation! Ha! It would catch me by surprise I sure do know that!

  5. It seems like creationists are much angrier today than ten years ago. Or do we just notice it more?

    • >It seems like creationists are much angrier today than ten years ago. Or do we just notice it more?
      >

      Good question. We’ve done some comparisons with some of the earliest Internet origins-forums that appears in Newsgroups. (We went back as far as 1991.) There were always some very angry people but it became clear to us that especially as strident voices like Kent Hovind became well-known in Young Earth Creationist circles, his cockiness and bold mockery seemed to move the boundary line much farther out. And once Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron developed their television presence, the fact they came across as “nice guys” and they were doing other things besides YECism—-like teaching street evangelism on their TV program—they made stridency and even some of the mockery easier. Why?
      My hunch is that a lot of YECs thought, “Those two are great men of God who are carrying out the Great Commission. So if they feel God wants them to mock science at times, then the average YEC had permission to move their boundary lines accordingly. Indeed, as Ken Ham became similarly known in YEC circles in America, there was a growing sense of playing the role of the “fearless prophet”, who speaks for God and therefore can behave like an OT prophet.

      Of course, I’m not saying that they actually think themselves on a par with OT prophets. I’m simply talking about perceptions and the average YECs willingness to become more aggressive. Also, the Internet in general provides a confidence that comes with physical safety and even anonymity for those who choose it.

      I should also mention that the indexed/searchable YEC websites has given YECs a confidence of easy copy-and-paste what they don’t even understand—unlike the early Newsgroups. So YECs don’t have to know “creation science” or even think! Many don’t hesitate at plagiarizing so some get off on the power trip of “sounding” scientific. Like so much else, it’s about the human foibles of who we are. All humans are susceptible to these behaviors.

      • I should also say that it is quite possible that, just as different people interpret things on different levels today, it is quite possible that in the generations after the Genesis 1 text was written, the average person may have varied in their reactions to it. Indeed, art and literature have probably always “reached” people on multiple levels at once.

        I’ll never forget what an ethnomusicologist once explained to me after years in the field working with different cultures. He said that if you ask a person in some remote tribe who has some “creation story” that has passed down through the peoples’ oral history “Is that a true story?” or “Is that literally true?” [which could be hard to do in their language], they would say Of course that’s true! but not mean it like we would. In their culture, that would be a question on a higher plane: “Is the wisdom of that story valid?” They just wouldn’t really understand “Did that really happen in ancient times?” They just don’t think in the same “tangible terms” as we do. To them, the fact there is TRUTH in the story makes it “REAL” to them.

        It reminds me of one of the lectures I mentioned above. He said that in the ancient cultures of the Near East, nobody treated “natural processes” and “Divine intervention” (e.g., a miracle) as different things. To them, everything was things God was doing. So a seed germinating is no less amazing and “supernatural” as Elijah healing the widow’s son. I immediately agreed with him even though I hadn’t look at it that way before.

        The scholars I’m mentioning would probably all say that Genesis 1 was NOT a chronological series of events and the original audience was very aware of that. They numbered things for lots of reasons and, unlike us, chronological factors and verbal tenses just weren’t part of their thinking.

        Does this mean that Young Earth Creationists actually read Genesis 1 in a more “primitive” way than the ancient Hebrews? Probably.

  6. http://worldviewwarriors.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/all-flap-about-ken-ham-is_27.html
    This is mainly an argument with Tyler Francke on which I don’t propose intervening. However I HAVE submitted the following comment which I KNOW the bigot Risner WILL silently and dishonestly censor:
    “Further confirmation that you are anti-science. Science disproves literal Genesis. We have not always known this. We did not know it when Genesis was written.”

    • This is mainly an argument with Tyler Francke on which I don’t propose intervening.

      One of Tyler’s observation in his 10-item list is one of my main questions for YECs: Why have the Tree of Life as an antidote if death doesn’t exist? Yet, many of his other nine struck me as weak. Moreover, as I feared, YECs react to Tyler’s list thinking that his ideas are held by all “theistic evolutionists” (a term I don’t even especially like, at least in my case.)

      Science disproves literal Genesis. We have not always known this. We did not know it when Genesis was written.”

      I recently heard several lectures from Ancient Near Eastern Studies scholars who actually promote the opposite view: That it is the modern-day readers who try to force a “literal interpretation” on Genesis 1 & 2 that the ancients didn’t. And so this is yet another instance where the people who are expert at such things remind us that the ancients weren’t as “primitive” and stupid as we today tend to assume (even if unconsciously.)

      One lecture in particular gave a lot of linguistic evidence and cultural clues showing that the ancients were far more comfortable and aware of symbolism (and especially the meanings of names) that we are. And I went away from the lectures thinking about this: western scholars including the German higher critics of the late 1800’s were starting to catch on to such things and the Fundamentalists of the early 1900’s reacted strongly against them. And what happens when people react strongly to a set of ideas? They tend to jump overboard to the opposite extreme! That is why I think American YECism in its “hyper-literalness” is still with us. It is a classic overreaction to a feared idea.

      Of course, I would also be the first to admit that the German Higher Critics were over-reacting to an extreme in some of their work. So I would say that this is another human foible that we find wherever humans are involved.

      That’s just how all of this strikes me. I’d love to read a dissertation that thoroughly tests my hypothesis.

  7. Remo Wilson failed to provide any evidence for his accusations within the required 24hour period. So the accusation has been deleted.

    Nor could Remo Wilson meet the simple challenge of providing any evidence to support his pseudo-science claims.

  8. Just seen the Curtis Long hatred here (under some Sorensen Facebook propaganda dated 12 Sept):
    https://www.facebook.com/Piltdown.Superman
    “Want to see fanatical evolutionists in action and proving this picture right?”
    And linking to this: http://www.forums.bcseweb.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3621#p50486

    Long has failed to show that Ham, Sorensen and co do NOT indoctrinate. I have shown that they DO. My point at the BCSE thread – which the idiot Long fails to address in the slightest – thus stands.

    Teens being taught that ‘science confirms the Bible’ (it does NOT which is why creationists relentlessly attack and seek to more narrowly define ‘science’) IS indoctrination. Real science is free of inflexible dogma and subject to independent per review. YEC-ism is based on religious dogma, denial and cronyism.

  9. “Remo Wilson failed to provide any evidence for his accusations within the required 24hour period. So the accusation has been deleted.”

    Like I come here and read this drivel every day. What the hell kind of rule is that, a required 24 hr period? Now it’s deleted. TWICE I got proof of your hypocrisy. Or you can quit lying about not censoring people.

    Another hypocrite is ********* [Mr. Haworth], who cries a river about censorship. He started crap with me and I stood up to him, so he blocked me. Censorship!

    • ** BSF SITE ADMIN SAYS: **

      Your whining is repetitive and laughable, Remo. Unlike Young Earth Creationist websites, we censor no one.

      You’ve been a unique situation in that you were warned that your evidence-free complaints against various people were without value. That is why I told you that your repeated accusations were tiresome and that if you are going to call people liars, you needed to provide evidence. You’ve also been challenged to actually comment on either the science or the scriptures related to origins topics. Instead, you’ve chosen to do all that you can to confirm the worst stereotypes of the “creation science” advocate on-line. That is unfair to sincere and honest Young Earth Creationists, most of whom genuinely seek to reflect the teachings of Jesus Christ in honorable ways.

      All of your comments should still be visible to readers EXCEPT the void-of-evidence last comment which was put on “hidden mode” when you failed to provide the requested evidence. Nevertheless, I should be able to restore your comment if you provide evidence, even now. (Most creation science websites ban outright all such comments and most readers never see dissent at all, let alone posted evidence that embarrasses their YEC traditions.)

      So here’s your big chance:

      (1) If you believe somebody lied, post the evidence. Don’t simply make a vague accusation. I’m not going to go to other websites in search of some obscure detail that you have yet to provide. All you’ve done so far is waste my time.

      (2) If you have a complaint against Ashley Hayworth and other websites, we aren’t going to be able to help you. He’s not a participating scholar or staff member on this campus. He has no affiliation with the Bible.and.Science.Forum.

      (3) If you have any scientific evidence or scripture evidence related to origins topics, your comments are welcome. So far your comments have been void of meaningful content, and it appears that you like to keep it that way.

      (4) If WordPress filters have refused any of your comments, let us know and I will investigate. WordPress has its own rules which determine who gets put on moderation but I routinely approve those comments when I do daily site maintenance.

      Saito S.
      System Admin
      Bible.and.Science.Forum

  10. Remo Wilson

    You allow him to make up stuff and post his vague attacks on me and others and this site is full of ridicule. Show me where I said I’m a YEC. And you’re lying, you censored me twice and then say you don’t censor people. Except me? Hypocrite!

    • ** BSF ADMIN SAYS: **

      Remo Wilson:

      (1) If one of your posts is not appearing, either tell me the time/date so I can look it up **OR** send it now and I will make sure that it is posted (assuming it reasonably appropriate for public posting.) As I said, WordPress has its own standards and filters. I can’t easily remedy without specifics.

      (2) If you believe someone has unfairly represented you or your position, give me a time/date so that I can investigate. However, don’t be surprised if someone responds in kind. (It is quite possible that I’ve missed something. I’m most likely to closely scrutinize comments for which I’ve received complaints.)

      (3) Why not avoid possible problems entirely by actually posting scientific or scriptural evidence for your positions? So far, you’ve managed to post nothing of educational value to anyone.

      In fact, if you are conceding that you have no evidence of any kind to support whatever positions you hold on origins please says so and tell readers WHY you hold those positions.

      Surely you are capable of posting at least one meaningful comment. Frankly, I’ve barely paid attention to your conversations with people on these threads because you managed to convince me that you had nothing significant to say. Nevertheless, I do hope you will prove me wrong. All you have to do is post something substantive.

      Saito S.
      System Admin
      Bible.and.Science.Forum

  11. Wilson is a pathological whining liar. I blocked an abusive conversation he wanted to have. That is not the same thing as blatant censorship on a public discussion forum. And I am neither a liar nor a hypocrite despite Wilson’s shrill accusations.

  12. Remo Wilson

    “Wilson is a pathological whining liar. I blocked an abusive conversation he wanted to have.”

    There ya go. He says stuff and doesn’t back it up but links to that forum that nobody cares about anyway where he proves his points by asserting them again. He has to PROVE I’m a LIAR, and also PATHOLOGICAL. show me your psych degree. And this site had better stop with the double standards and lying. But you like him becuase you all like to hate on YECs. Still waiting for osmeone to back up their claim that I said I’m a YEC. All I said was that I hate liaars and bulies.

    • *** ADMIN SAYS: ***

      >There ya go.

      WordPress holds for moderation some comments and not others. As a result, Mr. Haworth’s comments had not been read by anyone with BSF before they appeared.

      Frankly, we all have more important things to do than figure out who is or isn’t a liar. Here’s a thought: How about EVERYONE focus on commenting about the scientific evidence and/or the scripture evidence behind the various origins positions. And here’s a novel thought: Comments about the various blog articles could be worth reading. So why not post some?

      Meanwhile, from what I can tell, the only post by Remo Wilson which was taken down approximately 48 hours after it first appeared is still recoverable. I simply stated it would not reappear until supplemented by evidence. It received no further comment from the author for many weeks. Now it is suddenly an issue. I’m tired of the hassle and it’s a waste of my time. So if you think any of its content is important, post it again. But I would prefer you post something relevant to the topics of the BSF blog. And if you feel your position on origins has been misunderstood, why not post your position and explain WHY it’s your position and describe the evidence you deem important. Arguments about what did or didn’t happen on some other forum get very boring after a while.

    • “He says stuff and doesn’t back it up”. LIAR It is for Wilson to PROVE that my link does not do what I said it does. He can’t.

  13. Remo

    It is for Wilson to PROVE that my link does not do what I said it does. He can’t.

    LIAR! You make claims you back them up instead of making your own rules.

  14. ashley haworth-roberts

    Remo’s last comment PROVES that HE is a liar. My link shows his lies (and lies by other trolls who appeared on Bob Sorensen’s Facebook page to falsely attack me). Read my series of posts there if you do not believe me.

    Wilson lies by insisting it doesn’t. Like a bad infant caught misbehaving. But he cannot show this. Or else he would.

    But he still throws mud at me. Like the troll he is. Proof of his pathological mendacity.

    My conscience is clear.

    • We have asked Remo to post SOMETHING (or anything) which is at all educational or in keeping with the topics of the blog—but he seems to be stuck on complaining about imagined censorship and hypocrisy. I’d say this site is downright permissive compared to virtually every evolution-denying website.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s